(;
GM[1]US[Brought to you by IGS]
CoPyright[
  Copyright (c) I.Net Technologies, Inc. 1995
  Permission to reproduce this game is given, provided proper credit is given.
  No warrantee, implied or explicit, is understood.
  Use of this game is an understanding and agreement of this notice.
]
GN[NeuroGoII-tristan(B) IGS]RE[W+Time]
PW[NeuroGoII]WR[NR ]NW[  0]
PB[tristan]BR[NR ]NB[  0]
PC[IGS:  igs.nuri.net 6969]DT[1997-03-02]
SZ[19]TM[4500]KM[5.500000]LT[]

;B[cc]BL[4467]
;W[qq]WL[4459]C[
 tristan NR : will 75 min be sufficient for NeuroGO ?
]
;B[qc]BL[4446]C[
 NeuroGoII NR : How many moves in 75 min?
]
;W[cq]WL[4413]
;B[hc]BL[4396]C[
 tristan NR : does it play a move in 1 min ?
 NeuroGoII NR : Not more than 40 sec
]
;W[qf]WL[4361]
;B[ch]BL[4352]C[
 tristan NR : your opening is better than mine
]
;W[nc]WL[4318]C[
 tristan NR : does your today version beat your september version ?
 NeuroGoII NR : o17 still better?
 tristan NR : maybe my san san won't live :-)
 NeuroGoII NR : september version did not play on 19x19
]
;B[qk]BL[4281]
;W[pd]WL[4278]C[
 tristan NR : the version you played against Gogol
 NeuroGoII NR : It is the same version. The current version is not yet stable.
]
;B[oc]BL[4246]C[
 tristan NR : let's have a dirty fight!
 NeuroGoII NR : You asked me to remind you of the copies...
]
;W[pc]WL[4224]C[
 tristan NR : I have the proceedings and the 'photocopieuse', it is ok
]
;B[qe]BL[4177]C[
 NeuroGoII NR : Thanks. You still know which ones?
]
;W[qd]WL[4174]C[
 tristan NR : apart from GPW, do you have any new paper on computer Go ?
 NeuroGoII NR : No, apart from the new book "Games of no chance."
]
;B[hq]BL[4131]C[
 tristan NR : did you find interesting things in it ?
 NeuroGoII NR : It might be interesting for you. Combinatorial game theory.
 tristan NR : my san sans did not live :-(
 NeuroGoII NR : But you cannot use a lot in practical programming.
]
;W[rc]WL[4086]C[
 tristan NR : did they applied CGT to other parts than late endgame ?
 NeuroGoII NR : I do not think so. There are only 4 articles about Go, and the
]
;B[ob]BL[4067]C[
 NeuroGoII NR : ones by Howard L. and D. Moews were available before.
]
;W[od]WL[4036]
;B[pe]BL[4027]
;W[oe]WL[3999]
;B[lq]BL[3985]C[
 tristan NR : erratic game
]
;W[nb]WL[3956]
;B[cl]BL[3942]C[
 NeuroGoII NR : How about your program? Any new work on it?
]
;W[qh]WL[3901]C[
 tristan NR : nothing since september
 tristan NR : just removed my Ko bug
]
;B[cj]BL[3889]C[
 NeuroGoII NR : I see.
]
;W[qm]WL[3862]
;B[pf]BL[3844]C[
 NeuroGoII NR : Will B escape?
]
;W[pg]WL[3813]C[
 tristan NR : I bet yes
 NeuroGoII NR : Perhaps NGo will continue the false ladder.
]
;B[re]BL[3787]
;W[of]WL[3768]
;B[og]BL[3736]
;W[rf]WL[3729]C[
 NeuroGoII NR : What do you work on this year?
]
;B[se]BL[3689]C[
 tristan NR : I give a lot of courses and I defended my thesis
]
;W[qj]WL[3688]C[
 NeuroGoII NR : What do you mean by defend?
 tristan NR : it took me all my time, but I will have more time in one month
 tristan NR : and I will work again on my program
 NeuroGoII NR : Full time?
]
;B[qo]BL[3632]C[
 tristan NR : presenting it to a jury, answering their questions and getting it
 tristan NR : I plan to work 3 monthes full time on it
]
;W[pk]WL[3632]C[
 NeuroGoII NR : 3 monthes is a lot.
 tristan NR : I wnat to have a good result in this year Fost cup
]
;B[pl]BL[3571]
;W[ql]WL[3589]
;B[rk]BL[3524]
;W[rl]WL[3551]
;B[sk]BL[3473]
;W[rj]WL[3487]
;B[jp]BL[3420]C[
 tristan NR : looks like if you win all fights :-(
]
;W[oq]WL[3444]C[
 NeuroGoII NR : Looks like I loose all fights, when I play against commercial pgms
]
;B[mr]BL[3371]C[
 tristan NR : what where your results against commercial programs ?
]
;W[po]WL[3404]C[
 NeuroGoII NR : -100 on average on 19x19
]
;B[pp]BL[3321]
;W[qp]WL[3364]C[
 NeuroGoII NR : That is 9 stones!
]
;B[oo]BL[3265]C[
 tristan NR : did you try playing at 9 stones ?
 NeuroGoII NR : No.
]
;W[pn]WL[3326]
;B[mo]BL[3217]C[
 tristan NR : do you have a score estimation by NeuroGo
]
;W[op]WL[3283]C[
 NeuroGoII NR : 93%, but it overestimates the winning probablilty because
]
;B[nn]BL[3167]C[
 NeuroGoII NR : I score the deviations by assuming the points as independent
]
;W[jc]WL[3238]
;B[id]BL[3113]
;W[eq]WL[3196]
;B[lb]BL[3060]
;W[lc]WL[3158]
;B[kc]BL[2981]
;W[kd]WL[3120]
;B[mc]BL[2929]
;W[kb]WL[3083]
;B[mb]BL[2860]
;W[md]WL[3048]C[
 NeuroGoII NR : Gogol runs towards the edge too often
]
;B[ib]BL[2801]C[
 tristan NR : it lacks tactical strength
]
;W[cn]WL[3005]
;B[dm]BL[2701]
;W[nl]WL[2967]
;B[do]BL[2630]
;W[co]WL[2934]
;B[om]BL[2571]
;W[fo]WL[2897]
;B[en]BL[2490]
;W[fn]WL[2863]C[
 NeuroGoII NR : d4 now
]
;B[ho]BL[2433]
;W[gl]WL[2830]
;B[fm]BL[2377]
;W[gm]WL[2793]
;B[im]BL[2317]
;W[eo]WL[2756]C[
 tristan NR : neither see the disconnection !
]
;B[ok]BL[2303]C[
 NeuroGoII NR : what was the cmd for loading the game?
 tristan NR : load NeuroGoII-tristan
]
;W[pj]WL[2713]
;B[gn]BL[2245]C[
 NeuroGoII NR : I will not have much time for Go programming in the next few monthes
]
;W[nk]WL[2674]C[
 tristan NR : maybe I will get back on NeuroGoII in 4 months so ...
 NeuroGoII NR : If I am still above you then :-)
 tristan NR : I think you will win this game...
]
;B[oj]BL[2179]C[
 NeuroGoII NR : What is Gogol`s score?
]
;W[nj]WL[2612]C[
 tristan NR : it thinks it is ahead by 6 ;-)
]
;B[oh]BL[2111]
;W[oi]WL[2579]
;B[na]BL[2042]
;W[nd]WL[2523]
;B[ol]BL[1989]
;W[nm]WL[2487]
;B[ni]BL[1923]C[
 tristan NR : it was dangerous for NeuroGo
]
;W[pi]WL[2453]C[
 NeuroGoII NR : Yes.
 tristan NR : NeuroGo still wins the fight
]
;B[on]BL[1863]C[
 NeuroGoII NR : Do you know the exact date for the tournament in Marseille?
 tristan NR : I have not fixed it yet, I would like to know the preferences of
]
;W[li]WL[2399]C[
 tristan NR : the possible participants...
 tristan NR : do you have a preference ?
 NeuroGoII NR : My preference is generally bad :-( I cannot take holidays
 NeuroGoII NR : during the first 6 monthes of my PhD
]
;B[lm]BL[1775]
;W[ng]WL[2365]
;B[mi]BL[1711]
;W[mj]WL[2332]
;B[mh]BL[1650]C[
 tristan NR : another lost fight for Gogol
]
;W[lh]WL[2296]C[
 NeuroGoII NR : Lots of contact fights when NGo plays
]
;B[mg]BL[1594]
;W[mf]WL[2261]
;B[lg]BL[1525]
;W[kg]WL[2232]
;B[lf]BL[1443]
;W[kf]WL[2197]
;B[le]BL[1359]
;W[ke]WL[2152]C[
 tristan NR : nice wall for W
 NeuroGoII NR : Indeed
]
;B[me]BL[1280]
;W[nf]WL[2106]C[
 tristan NR : no more hope
]
;B[if]BL[1217]
;W[pb]WL[2065]
;B[kh]BL[1155]
;W[ld]WL[2032]
;B[lj]BL[1101]C[
 tristan NR : Gogol is just kidding :-)
]
;W[ki]WL[1997]C[
 NeuroGoII NR : :-)
]
;B[sf]BL[1038]
;W[kk]WL[1963]
;B[ik]BL[976]
;W[kj]WL[1928]
;B[bm]BL[926]
;W[rg]WL[1892]
;B[sg]BL[877]
;W[gj]WL[1857]C[
 NeuroGoII NR : will W live?
]
;B[gk]BL[824]
;W[fk]WL[1823]C[
 tristan NR : Gogol lacks a little finesse
 NeuroGoII NR : NGo is very brute too :-)
]
;B[hk]BL[775]
;W[fl]WL[1785]
;B[ei]BL[725]
;W[em]WL[1750]
;B[fj]BL[680]
;W[dn]WL[1716]
;B[fr]BL[628]
;W[go]WL[1681]
;B[hn]BL[577]
;W[fc]WL[1650]C[
 NeuroGoII NR : f17 should be dead right?
]
;B[dd]BL[529]C[
 tristan NR : the fight should not be good for you, but NGo is stonger than Gogol at fights...
]
;W[eb]WL[1615]
;B[db]BL[483]C[
 NeuroGoII NR : It does not see connections between strings.
]
;W[fe]WL[1573]
;B[gf]BL[434]
;W[qn]WL[1538]C[
 NeuroGoII NR : Now it is dead.
 tristan NR : not sure :-)
 tristan NR : I have a memory problem here, looking for a solution
 NeuroGoII NR : Ok. I will wait.
 tristan NR : I have a problem, I lost my game file and my process was killed
 tristan NR : do you have a record of our game ?
 tristan NR : can you send it to me by e-mail ?
 NeuroGoII NR : You can log off, and mail the game from igs, I only have the game in ishi format
 NeuroGoII NR : I still have not programmed the sgf routine :-(
 tristan NR : can you mail me a matrix of the position ?
 tristan NR : igs does not mail unfinished games...
 NeuroGoII NR : I just sent the diagram to your address
 tristan NR : I received it, telling you more soon...
 NeuroGoII NR : Would you mind me logging off for I while? I am at home,
 NeuroGoII NR : telephone bill will be enourmous...
 tristan NR : ok I mail you when it is ok, I have a file system full and I am not root...
 tristan NR : see you soon
 NeuroGoII NR : See you. I will look for mail in 1/2 hour
 NeuroGoII NR : your move.
 tristan NR : is entering byo-yomi
]
;B[fg]BL[-931]C[
 tristan NR : maybe you cold add me some time
 NeuroGoII NR : If you tell me the command.
 tristan NR : addtime number of minutes
 NeuroGoII NR : Increase tristan's time by 30 minutes
]
;W[rh]WL[1462]C[
 NeuroGoII NR : Did someone kill Gogol?
]
;B[cf]BL[801]C[
 tristan NR : my command tool got too large and made a huge core
 tristan NR : taking every place on my disk
 tristan NR : so it did not save the last board and killed Gogol
 tristan NR : what debugger do you use under linux ?
 NeuroGoII NR : gdb
]
;W[dl]WL[1350]C[
 tristan NR : i tried xgdb but did not find how to trace the source
 tristan NR : does gdb debug C++ too ?
 NeuroGoII NR : ddd is a better frontend than xgdb, but  i use command line
 NeuroGoII NR : it debugs c++ too
]
;B[ph]BL[730]
;W[nh]WL[1321]C[
 tristan NR : I still have some bugs :-)
 NeuroGoII NR : problem?
]
;B[gi]BL[680]
;W[cm]WL[1292]
;B[ck]BL[634]C[
 NeuroGoII NR : thanks for sending the copies
]
;W[gb]WL[1258]C[
 NeuroGoII NR : do you like any copies from the Nowakowski book?
 tristan NR : yes
]
;B[hl]BL[587]C[
 tristan NR : you said there was 4 papers about Go
 tristan NR : I know the work of D. Moews
 NeuroGoII NR : You can get Eyespace values (Landman) and Loopy games (Moews) via internet
]
;W[hb]WL[1192]C[
 tristan NR : what are the two others
 NeuroGoII NR : I will send you a copy of the contents
 tristan NR : thanks
]
;B[ic]BL[532]C[
 tristan NR : maybe W will live
 NeuroGoII NR : Where is the 1000$ Ko (Berlekamp) and Experiments in CompGo endgames (Mueller)
]
;W[er]WL[1159]C[
 tristan NR : I am interested by the one of martin
 NeuroGoII NR : It is mostly the same as his thesis
]
;B[gq]BL[481]C[
 tristan NR : I already have his thesis
 NeuroGoII NR : There is 1 article about CGT in chess. Do not ask me
 NeuroGoII NR : how they seperate the subgames there.
 tristan NR : :-)
]
;W[ih]WL[1090]
;B[hj]BL[443]
;W[ig]WL[1060]
;B[ef]BL[408]C[
 NeuroGoII NR : You won this fight
 tristan NR : Gogol think he is behind by 53
]
;W[ed]WL[1025]
;B[or]BL[374]C[
 NeuroGoII NR : NGo still thinks f17 is alive
]
;W[qr]WL[987]C[
 NeuroGoII NR : at least 80% alive
]
;B[gd]BL[335]
;W[ek]WL[962]
;B[jl]BL[292]
;W[ne]WL[935]C[
 tristan NR : is f17 still alive
 NeuroGoII NR : 50 - 60% probability
]
;B[bn]BL[248]
;W[bo]WL[903]
;B[hg]BL[203]
;W[ni]WL[875]C[
 tristan NR : some useless moves in endgame
 NeuroGoII NR : Yes very useless
]
;B[ll]BL[170]C[
 NeuroGoII NR : NGo still thinks it is far ahead, because it
 NeuroGoII NR : does not realize that the upper group is dead
]
;W[nq]WL[825]C[
 tristan NR : even if it is dead, it is far ahead...
 NeuroGoII NR : I am bad at counting the score...
]
;B[nr]BL[131]
;W[ea]WL[801]
;B[da]BL[79]C[
 tristan NR : you have good chances to live...
]
;W[lk]WL[776]C[
 tristan NR : even if it is dead
 NeuroGoII NR : I would need 2 moves in a row
]
;B[an]BL[43]
;W[bc]WL[747]C[
 NeuroGoII NR : Just kidding
 tristan NR : let's have fun
]
;B[bd]BL[12]C[
 NeuroGoII NR : good answer
]
;W[bb]WL[721]C[
 NeuroGoII NR : but still...
];
White[bb]C[
 Ed. note: Markus failed to "addtime" for Tristan before time ran out.
	   Therefore IGS game ended and couldn't be restored.
	   Remainder of game is reconstructed from participants records,
	   but has no comments.
];
Black[pr]
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White[pq]
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Black[ba]
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White[cd]
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Black[ce]
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White[cb]
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Black[ca]
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White[dc]
;
White[fd]
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Black[dc]
;
White[hh]
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Black[gh]
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White[hf]
;
Black[he]
;
White[fq]
;
Black[fs]
;
White[mn]
;
Black[ln]
;
White[bl]
;
Black[bk]
;
White[al]
;
Black[ak]
;
White[ao]
;
White[gr]
;
Black[hr]
;
White[gs]
;
Black[hs]
;
White[mq]
;
Black[mp]
;
White[bl]
;
Black[al]
;
White[kq]
;
Black[lp]
;
White[mm]
;
Black[jr]
;
White[lr]
;
Black[kr]
;
White[np]
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Black[no]
;
White[jb]
;
Black[ia]
;
White[kl]
;
Black[km]
;
White[so]
;
Black[gp]
;
White[cs]
;
Black[ha]
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White[ga]
;
Black[ja]
;
White[ka]
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Black[fb]
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White[dk]
;
Black[gc]
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White[ps]
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Black[ee]
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White[hi]
;
Black[os]
;
White[qs]
;
Black[je]
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White[jd]
;
Black[jf]
;
White[fp]
;
Black[jg]
;
White[jh]
;
Black[ii]
;
White[es]
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Black[ji]
;
White[kh]
;
Black[dj]
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White[jj]
;
Black[ij]
;
White[pa]
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Black[ml]
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White[oh]
;
White[sp]
;
Black[ej]
;
White[hm]
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Black[jk]
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White[sb]
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Black[mk]
;
White[sq]
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Black[pm]
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White[pp]
;
White[pp]
;
White[bg]
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Black[bh]
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White[dg]
;
Black[bf]
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White[rb]
;
Black[cg]
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White[ra]
;
Black[dh]
;
White[sj]
;
White[sj]
;
White[sr]
;
White[sr]
;
White[ro]
)