(;
GM[1]US[Brought to you by No Name Go Server]
CoPyright[
  This game was played on the No Name Go Server
  Permission to reproduce this game is given.]
GN[FSF-neurogo(B) NNGS]
EV[None]
RE[W+94.5]
PW[FSF]WR[NR ]
PB[neurogo]BR[NR ]
PC[NNGS Worldwide: nngs.cosmic.org 9696]
DT[2000-09-20]
SZ[19]TM[600]KM[5.5]

;B[cc];W[pd]C[
 kossa started observation.
]
;B[cq]C[
 Gogol started observation.
 bump started observation.
]
;W[qp]C[
 mikke started observation.
 ingwa started observation.
]
;B[qc];W[qd]C[
 Onzrock started observation.
]
;B[pc];W[oc]C[
 coconut started observation.
 Deckard started observation.
]
;B[nc];W[ob];B[rc]C[
 Micke started observation.
]
;W[lc]C[
 magnus started observation.
]
;B[qf];W[nd];B[nq];W[rd];B[qj];W[hd]C[
 kossa 6k*: always fun to watch two computer programs play against each other...you never know what they are up to. (18)
]
;B[qn];W[ch];B[pp];W[rq];B[gq];W[ce];B[ec];W[dl];B[kn];W[co]C[
 styx started observation.
]
;B[eo];W[ee];B[ml];W[iq]C[
 ingwa 6k*: Neurogo is building an uncomfortably big moyo here. (32)
]
;B[ip];W[mj];B[jq];W[pq];B[oh];W[kj];B[cn];W[bn];B[cm];W[dn];B[dm];W[cl]
;B[em];W[bm];B[gl];W[do];B[en];W[fl]C[
 GoProg started observation.
]
;B[hj];W[ni]C[
 magnus 2d : My program think Black is behind with 100 points... (52)
]
;B[fi]C[
 kossa 6k*: do _you_ think that is correct?  ;) (53)
]
;W[gi];B[gh];W[hi]C[
 GoProg NR : why is neurogo busy typing commands all the time? Does he control the program with it? (56)
 magnus 2d : Yes, in the long term I think Gnugo will win with at least a 100 points ;-) (56)
]
;B[ii]C[
 bom started observation.
]
;W[hh];B[hg];W[ih];B[jh]C[
 magnus 2d : The reason is that my program think black has 20 groups and white 8 (61)
]
;W[lg]C[
 Micke 2k*: ladder? :-) (62)
]
;B[ig];W[gj]C[
 GoProg NR : black likes ladders :) (64)
]
;B[fj]C[
 kossa 6k*: gnugo will always try to play a ladder check if the oppenent can read them out :-) (65)
]
;W[gk]C[
 farfadet started observation.
 Micke 2k*: Any estimations of the score yet? ;-) (66)
]
;B[fk];W[hk]C[
 GoProg NR : is neurogo above gnugo in the ladder? (68)
]
;B[ik];W[ij];B[ji]C[
 GoProg NR : this ladder was a big disadvantage for NeuroGO (71)
]
;W[jj]C[
 styx NR : I don't get it -- why would black let H10 be taken? (72)
]
;B[hl];W[hj]C[
 GoProg NR : he was busy trying to keep up the ladder :) (74)
 Gogol NR : shiborit for neurogo (74)
 Onzrock 8k*: b e8? (74)
]
;B[fe];W[jg]C[
 ingwa 6k*: Now the cutting starts (76)
]
;B[ef];W[dj];B[kg]C[
 kossa 6k*: not yet ingwa...they still have to make some silly moves :) (79)
]
;W[jf];B[el];W[gg];B[fh];W[gf];B[df];W[de];B[cf];W[lq];B[be];W[mr];B[mq]
;W[bd]C[
 h9 started observation.
]
;B[bf];W[cd];B[ed]C[
 kossa 6k*: the sequence in upper left is not very good for w (95)
]
;W[bc]C[
 ingwa 6k*: awful is the word you are seeking (96)
]
;B[bb]C[
 GoProg NR : that if blacks knows how to respong (97)
 GoProg NR : respond  (97)
]
;W[cb];B[db];W[dc];B[ca]C[
 GoProg NR : white can win on top left now if he knows how (101)
]
;W[eb];B[da]C[
 GoProg NR : f18 would be best I think (103)
]
;W[ba];B[cc]C[
 dreish started observation.
]
;W[fd];B[dd]C[
 GoProg NR : big win for white now (107)
]
;W[fc];B[dc];W[ff];B[fb];W[gb];B[fa];W[of];B[pr];W[nr];B[oq]C[
 gurkland started observation.
]
;W[qq];B[or];W[ro];B[qo];W[lp];B[jr];W[ab];B[aa];W[ng];B[ac];W[ge];B[qr]
;W[rn];B[qm];W[rm]C[
 hobo started observation.
]
;B[bh]C[
 GoProg started observation.
]
;W[bi];B[ag];W[aq];B[cp];W[bo]C[
 Gogol NR : tell 50 neurogo is kind (138)
]
;B[rr];W[ql];B[pl]C[
 GoProg NR : white must cut at a 16 (141)
]
;W[po];B[sq];W[op];B[on];W[no];B[nn];W[lo];B[oo];W[np];B[bk];W[rl];B[ck]
;W[br];B[dk];W[eg];B[bp];W[cr];B[dp];W[ap];B[er];W[dr];B[ep]C[
 hobo started observation.
 igor started observation.
 ingwa 6k*: T2 is worth a lot now (163)
]
;W[ln]C[
 mikke 1k : W d2 made life (164)
]
;B[ci];W[pk]C[
 Micke 2k*: Black is dead in lower right. (166)
]
;B[ok]C[
 mikke 1k : T2?  (167)
 ingwa 6k*: Er, yes i misread (167)
]
;W[ol];B[pm]C[
 perch started observation.
]
;W[oj];B[nk]C[
 kossa started observation.
]
;W[qh];B[pj];W[qk];B[rj];W[om];B[pn]C[
 Deckard started observation.
]
;W[nm]C[
 ex63 started observation.
]
;B[mn]C[
 ex63 15k : hi there (179)
]
;W[mm];B[pp]C[
 Gogol NR : hi martin! (181)
]
;W[ll];B[rp]C[
 Micke 2k*: wow (183)
 ex63 15k : hello?  (183)
]
;W[qg];B[lm]C[
 mikke 1k : you have to improve gnugo's ko-tactics (185)
 kossa 6k*: hehe :-) (185)
 magnus 2d : NeuroGo II plays strange most of time but plays very well sometimes (185)
]
;W[km]C[
 mikke 1k : in my opinion that is the weakest spot in gnugo right now (186)
]
;B[oi];W[nj];B[qp];W[pi];B[jn];W[fg]C[
 mikke 1k : In my games against gnugo it always loose the concept when a ko comes up (192)
]
;B[dh];W[il];B[bl];W[qb]C[
 ex63 15k : can anyone hear me? (196)
]
;B[pb]C[
 kossa 6k*: no, but we see what you are typing (197)
 GoProg NR : I can "read" you (197)
 ex63 15k : thanks  (197)
]
;W[rb];B[pa];W[sb]C[
 Micke 2k*: d1 kills? (200)
]
;B[sc];W[oa]C[
 ingwa 6k*: But white is already dead, isn't he? (202)
 ex63 15k : already dead around d1 (202)
]
;B[rh]C[
 Micke 2k*: yes (203)
 ex63 15k : in theory :() (203)
 GoProg NR : I think dead also...if black plays correctly (203)
]
;W[rg]C[
 Micke 2k*: strange... (204)
]
;B[jm]C[
 hiddenl started observation.
]
;W[im];B[jl];W[jk];B[kl];W[lm];B[lk];W[qi]C[
 Micke 2k*: My brain was refering outdated information. :) (212)
]
;B[in];W[hm];B[gm];W[ki];B[mk];W[kk];B[lj];W[nh];B[ri]C[
 GoProg NR : both programs waste a lot of moves (221)
]
;W[li];B[hn]C[
 kossa 6k*: yes, many silly moves now. (223)
]
;W[ik];B[kr];W[lr];B[mp];W[mo];B[so]C[
 kodori started observation.
]
;W[dg];B[cg];W[os];B[ps];W[ns]C[
 GoProg NR : does gnugo think the group at a1 is dead? (234)
]
;B[ko];W[eh]C[
 ex63 15k : g19 and a16 are both double sente now (236)
]
;B[ch];W[ei];B[ls];W[ej];B[fm];W[cj];B[bj];W[kp];B[jp];W[sn];B[sp];W[ad]
;B[ab];W[ae];B[rk];W[ga];B[sl]C[
 GoProg NR : why doesnt gnugo try to save the group at a1? (253)
]
;W[nl];B[ok]C[
 kodori 3k*: the group is dead (255)
]
;W[nk]C[
 ingwa 6k*: It knows that the group is dead (256)
 GoProg NR : d1 makes life? (256)
]
;B[ea];W[rf]C[
 Micke 2k*: gnugo is winning (+40) (258)
]
;B[bq];W[ek]C[
 kodori 3k*: gungo??  I just joined. (260)
 kossa 6k*: w is gnugo (260)
]
;B[fl];W[di]C[
 kodori 3k*: i see (262)
]
;B[ds]C[
 GoProg NR : d1 is life I think (263)
]
;W[kq];B[cs];W[fe];B[ie]C[
 Onzrock 8k*: w d1 b b1? (267)
]
;W[if]C[
 ingwa 6k*: fill_liberty doing its job. :-) (268)
]
;B[bs]C[
 GoProg NR : b b1 w a1 (269)
 ingwa 6k*: ; Well, not J14, that is (269)
]
;W[af]C[
 tanguy NR : after w d1 black B1 kills (270)
]
;B[id]C[
 Onzrock 8k*: then bb3 (271)
]
;W[ai];B[aj];W[ms];B[ib]C[
 ingwa 6k*: After W D1, white is still dead.  B1 and A2 were miai (275)
]
;W[ks]C[
 pappa started observation.
]
;B[he];W[hf];B[hc]C[
 GoProg NR : yes... ok... (279)
]
;W[gc];B[kb];W[kd]C[
 ex63 15k : b is tenacios :) (282)
]
;B[lb];W[mb];B[jc];W[gd];B[dq];W[js]C[
 ex63 15k : h18  (288)
]
;B[ar];W[ir]C[
 kossa 6k*: wow (290)
 ingwa 6k*: wow (290)
]
;B[hb];W[gr]C[
 GoProg NR : lol  (292)
 Deckard started observation.
]
;B[hp];W[fr];B[hr];W[hs]C[
 ingwa 6k*: white is skillfully making white overconcontrated. :-) (296)
]
;B[hq];W[is]C[
 kossa 6k*: ? (298)
]
;B[sg];W[fq]C[
 ingwa 6k*: White is making black...  I mean (300)
]
;B[fp];W[la];B[mc]C[
 h9 started observation.
]
;W[md];B[je];W[jd];B[kf];W[ke];B[ja];W[ic]C[
 GoProg NR : it hurts to see some of the moves they make :) (310)
]
;B[id];W[ha]C[
 ingwa 6k*: noooo! (312)
 ex63 15k : funny L&D here... (312)
]
;B[ie];W[fs];B[ma];W[na];B[gn];W[ls]C[
 pappa NR : really? :-) (318)
 woods started observation.
]
;B[al]C[
 ingwa 6k*: Lots of tuning material here, (319)
]
;W[eq]C[
 dreish 11k : These programs have their own unique ideas about how Go should be played. (320)
]
;B[qq]C[
 alpena started observation.
]
;W[gs];B[ia];W[es];B[dr];W[tt]C[
 Micke 2k*: w+50 now (326)
]
;B[sk];W[tt]C[
 alpena 3k*: why are so many people watching this? (328)
]
;B[sh];W[tt];B[se];W[tt];B[sd];W[sf];B[pg];W[pf]C[
 ingwa 6k*: win by 75.5 (336)
]
;B[re];W[qe]C[
 magnus 2d : Watching computer go make you feel intelligent (338)
 alpena 3k*: why are so many people watching this? (338)
 ingwa 6k*: Many are programmers of the programs (338)
]
;B[lf]C[
 alpena 3k*: ok  (339)
]
;W[tt]C[
 GoProg NR : mainly programmers and involved people (340)
]
;B[mf];W[kh];B[od];W[qa];B[se]C[
 dreish 11k : Or just interested in the state of computer Go. (345)
]
;W[tt];B[re];W[tt];B[ld];W[le];B[me];W[tt];B[je];W[ne];B[jh];W[tt];B[mh]
;W[tt]C[
 GoProg NR : neurogo likes to give away some extra points... (358)
]
;B[kc];W[ld];B[oe];W[nf];B[ig];W[tt]C[
 Onzrock 8k*: ... amazed to see how computers still believe 'it's not over!' ;) (364)
]
;B[pb];W[tt];B[pa];W[tt]C[
 ingwa 6k*: I've seen humans do the same. (368)
]
;B[pc];W[qc];B[pb];W[tt]C[
 woods started observation.
]
;B[pa]C[
 GoProg NR : in the other game today GNUGO lost large amount by passing at wrong time (373)
]
;W[tt]C[
 ingwa 6k*: Holding white down to 8 eyes. (374)
]
;B[mg];W[lh]C[
 Micke 2k*: 30k-29k level post-endgame play (376)
]
;B[lk];W[tt]C[
 GoProg NR : I saw beginners filling in their own eyes :) (378)
 pappa NR : no more like 28.5 (378)
 Micke 2k*: and the winner is... (378)
 pappa NR : Bill G? (378)
]
;B[lj];W[tt];B[ii];W[tt]C[
 hobo started observation.
]
;B[sa];W[tt]C[
 Onzrock 8k*: ... black wins atari contest ;) (384)
]
;B[sd]C[
 GoProg NR : easy way to win against Neurogo: make large territory and let it fill it with stones :) (385)
]
;W[tt];B[tt]C[
 Micke 2k*: Neurogo is an escaper? :-) (387)
 GoProg NR : what are they waiting for now? (387)
 GoProg started observation.
]
;)
